Moderator: ofonorow
exitium wrote:I would be inclined to believe its the vit C having a positive effect....especially if she has low cholesterol numbers.
ofonorow wrote:maybe this horse you led to water will drink?
exitium wrote:
After this reply I think I am just going to cut my losses, everything I write is being read into and misconstrued as you go off on a myriad of tangents..
The reason I said cholesterol is not the enemy is because its a symptom and unfortunately modern medicine chases and addresses symptoms, usually with drugs and often at the cost of true health because they ignore the underlying problem. When you address high cholesterol numbers with drugs you hid symptoms and do nothing else. There is no solid evidence that statins and the like add to longevity, so what is their point? Address the underlying problem causing the elevated cholesterol and cholesterol drops in turn..
exitium wrote:
Um I never said your dad had high Cholesterol, never mentioned your dad in this post at all. As for my belief in in high insulin levels having a huge impact on cholesterol levels, thats not speculations, its proven science as the likes of many here on the forum can attest to.....such as Johnwen who is a practicing physician who understands the process. In your statement above you even lend credibility to that by sharing that your dad eats a low glycemic diet and has low cholesterol. I myself have monitored cholesterol and have seen it rise as my carb intake does. Your big on labs and fact and they are staring you right in the face on this topic. .
exitium wrote:
Not sure what you are arguing here or how it "depends". High cholesterol is most commonly a side effect of poor arterial health and/or high insulin levels due to high glycemic diet. Rarely does cholesterol just become high in and of itself, there is an underlying driving factor and if you address the underlying driving factor cholesterol goes down. One can, and modern medicine often does, ignore these underlying conditions and simply targets cholesterol for no other reason than to say the labs show an improvement but as study after study has shown ignoring the underlying problem and just targeting cholesterol does not add to longevity
exitium wrote:
I guess thats one way to look at it but peoples actions are usually a result or what they know or understand (or dont know and dont understand). .
exitium wrote:
Thats was a general statement not necessarily directed at you or your understanding of PT. However as much as you criticize me for thinking nutrients can cure a host of maladies you continually post personal evidence to support my claims and have drank the PT coolaid. You called me crazy for saying test levels can be raised and E levels lowered by supplementation yet you posted in other threads that you cleaned up your diet and had your test levels rise. You state you understand the process by which vit C helps with CAD but fail to acknowledge that every other essential nutrient is just as critical to human function even though the impact is different.
At the end of the day I think you are chasing a lot of symptoms instead of trying to understand the underlying driving force causing the symptoms and addressing them. However since you have seen with your own eyes the changes diet has made to your body and the effect vit C seems to have on yoru mother I think its just a matter of time before your outlook begins to shift.
Anyway, in regards to your original post on your mothers bruising, thanks for sharing, I think its really cool when people can see first hand the effects that supplementation can have. I have many personal stories like that myself. Depression, brain fog, inability to sleep, afib, plantar faciitis, poor performance in the gym, inability to lose fat while maintaining muscle mass....these are just some of the issues I have addressed personally (and in many other) with simple supplementation.
blade wrote:sheesh..
I also asked you how you quantified your A-fib was better, you never answered hat
exitium wrote:blade wrote:sheesh..
I also asked you how you quantified your A-fib was better, you never answered hat
On the contrary I told you exactly how it was quantified and you replied directly to my statement quantifying it. Perhaps its really you that has the reading and comprehension problem here.
I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt but its clear your really not looking for help so at least theres one thing we can agree on, I should stop posting in your threads because its clearly a waste of my time.
blade wrote:oh and where it that?
if you had done that, you would have proven it and showed me up
exitium wrote:
"show you up"? to what end? Im not here to show anyone up.
We just have very different ways of communicating that makes it difficult for us to clearly communicate with each other.
P.S. I also told you how to control your fathers estrogen as well.
exitium wrote:Well, because I used to have multiple episodes daily where I could feel my heart missing beats (easily verified by taking pulse) as well as times when it would race for no apparent reason. Now after over a year of supplementation it happens maybe once a week.
Additionally there are many other forums on the net where others have experienced similar positive changes in afib by adding supplements to diet.
.
blade wrote:exitium wrote:
"show you up"? to what end? Im not here to show anyone up.
We just have very different ways of communicating that makes it difficult for us to clearly communicate with each other.
P.S. I also told you how to control your fathers estrogen as well.
LOL
yeah I agree, but you seem so set on saying I'm wrong, when we agree about everything, cept needing to go HRT to control T and E..and not giving me answers
so how did you check your a-fib to see it was not an issue anymore?
how do you increase T without drugs?
Im very curious as I used read a forum solely on TRT, and it was all about adding in foods to fix things or changing bodyfat %, etc,
but there is just no food/missing ingredient to boost T and lower e. as otherwise those guys would likely do it
I've summed up the basics of what is shown food-wise to boost T?
I've searched and came up without finding anything you've said
so what do you have?
oh are you referring to this?
Cause this is not a concrete evidence, this is abstract feelings
blade wrote:exitium wrote:Well, because I used to have multiple episodes daily where I could feel my heart missing beats (easily verified by taking pulse) as well as times when it would race for no apparent reason. Now after over a year of supplementation it happens maybe once a week.
Additionally there are many other forums on the net where others have experienced similar positive changes in afib by adding supplements to diet.
.
so I did read it and did understand to not be what I wanted,.
but I do recall that I added my 2cents that the feelings I had about my own palpitations have disappeared via supplementing with MG, 400-800mg/day but does that mean I know for sure the MG has fixed the issue? no, since I also have started doing a few other things, like take VC, eat less, etc
like you picked different b12, whyd you change? when you found one that worked, what made it "work"?
your solution for afib doesnt seem to work, since you still have afib, are you still seeking a missing ingredient?
you keep saying Im set on studies and science, yet everything about VitC is based on studies and science, right?
even the "maybe stuff", which is based on nothing, I try:
like how I got my dad to start eating shrimp for iodine/selenium
the issues I question your method is once ones meds for his afib, you aren't supposed to ever come off them.
my dad does not and he never has afib anymore he won't, he found a solution to his a-fib
why is more selinum/iodine/more X better than what he takes which fixes his afib 100%?
so I have no idea how to get him to check to see if extra iodine/selenium does anything, OR if taking extra is better than just taking his a-fib pills, since now he never has any afib issues.
so is your "lowering estrogen" confirmed by a lab work? or is it abstract feelings, like guys who "swear" DIM pills lower e2, and there is lots of "stuff" about DIM assuring that it does,. yet no lab test showing DIM does lower e2.
I still take DIM, cause I dont see a downside....just like VC
blade wrote:what someone thinks or understands doesnt mean much, what matters is what they do, right?
exitium wrote:
For starters I dont believe I ever said "you are wrong". My point has been that you are skipping over the basic essentials of optimal bodily function. You are running out onto a beach and trying to erect a house right on the sand without laying down a solid foundation to put it on, more on this later.
exitium wrote:
Your posts are very difficult to follow and I dont think im alone in that, you have questions buried within questions and jump around from subject to subject.
exitium wrote:This is one reason I have not gone into a lot of detail and I am sure why many of your posts do not have any responses by others.
exitium wrote:For me personally I can "feel" my afib episodes. Taking my pulse when I feel them verifies that it is indeed occurring. Sure its no EKG or holter monitor, but I am not going to pay for them to tell me what I already know.after he had afib, he went to the ER, and later was given a holter which confirmed afib Ive been down that road. I was also put on a beta blocker and aspirin for the afib which had no effect. I had 3 different doctors tell me there is nothing I could do about it. I stopped meds cold turkey after 90 days and havent looked back. Your not supposed to come off afib meds according to who? my dad who had afibThe maker who benefits from you buying them every month for the rest of your life? The prescribing doctor who makes money off your constant visits and script refills?
exitium wrote:As for me curing my afib, I would not say its cured but I believe one day in the near future it will be. It can take weeks, months or years for the body to manifest symptoms due to a missing nutrient
and it can take just as long for the body to heal itselfI know that all too well once the nutrients are restored. One example is Dr Brownstein claims that in his practice treating people with iodine for thyroid health it takes 6-12 months at 50mg a day for people to reach iodine sufficiency. We have seen similar claims here for PT to have its full effect.
With nutrients, its not like taking a drug, we have to not only supply enough for the daily demands but also an excess for the body to repair and heal. The problem with most supplement plans is they do not take that into account. They simply use what the body needs on a daily basis as the target goal but that does not address the needs of repair and regeneration for years of previous nutrient shortage.
In a perfect world the FDA recommendation for vit C may be ample. But VC is an excellent electron donor to the immune system. In animals who have been studied, they ALL greatly increase vit C production during times of stress and illness. The FDA RDI doesnt account for that, or exposure to toxins and a myriad of other things. The reason PT calls for 6+ grams is because thats what has been deemed to be the minimum to not only give the body what it needs for day to day operation but to have the excess to repair past damage.
MG is one shortage that can cause afib, but so can the shortage of many other nutrients. My research indicated that beta blockers had no impact on life span, all they did was treat the symptom of afib and then only in some cases, had many sides and offered no tangible benefit so I opted to self treat. This endeavor involved 20+ hours of research a week for many many months. I spent my time learning about the heart and what causes it to beat and all of the things that can contribute to afib. The list is actually quite long and while PT doesnt specifically mention afib, a lot of people who have had other CAD issues had afib as well and many of them who went on PT reversed blockages and all the sides associated with them, including angina and afib. The underlying process by which PT heals arterial damage is also critical to all collagen based tissue in the body. As someone who had been struggling with some major bouts of tendinitis in my elbows from years of lifting Vit C was a no brainer so I started PT and ended up on this form.
The journey didnt stop there however, potassium and magnesium, salt and various other nutrients all play critical roles in human health and specifically heart health. As I approach 50 my list of symptoms wasnt short, as I have previously mentioned, so it became more than about just dealing with afib but improving my whole quality of life. I began to pick a nutrient and spend some time focusing on it, whats its used for by the body, the pros and cons of too much/too little. The impact that nutrient has on the bodies use of other nutrients etc. Then over about a 6 month windo I began to add things all the while continuing to research, specifically looking at work by medical practitioners experienced with the practice of using nutrients like S. Pacholick for B12, Dr Levy for Vit C and other things, cathcart, hoffer, Saul, Foster, Brownstien and the list goes on. These guys dont have studies in the journals because the journals wont publish their work, there is no money in it and it takes money out of the pockets of the drug companies who sponsor the mags. However these docs have years of medical practice under their belts and have written case studies and put together data from their practices which encompasses thousands of patients.
I also spent a lot of time on pub med looking at journal papers and at the end of the day for every paper stating something about nutrition there is often another stating the opposite. There is a complex interaction between nutrients in the body and most of the studies that are done on nutrients are done with blinders on. The average reader is unaware of the interactions between nutrients so when the article simply stated adding X caused Y they took it to heart not realizing that to someone with the knowledge of how that nutrient worked the results were as expected. One example is iodine, there are quite a few studies out there showing that adding significant amounts of iodine actually caused hypothyroidism more often than not supplementing. Most people would read that and say iodine = bad.
The truth however is that iodine is essential to life and while a great many of these studies arent wrong (ie iodine alone can increase chance of hypo) they do not paint a complete picture. The study in its strictest sense proved what it set out to and thats simply what effect does adding iodine supplementation have? But there is a bigger picture. Iodine is one of the base elements used by the body to create thyroxins so an absence of iodine means the body can not produce an optimal amount of them. You add in the ingredients for the body to make more and it will make more. So if the body can make more then why were people who supplemented more likely to go hypo? Because the process of thyroxin creation in the thyroid also creates toxic byproducts. These byproducts are neutralized by selenium based enzymes and in the absence of selenium these toxins cant be neutralized and cause thyroid damage which actually causes the hypo. Add selenium into the mix along with the iodine and the problems goes away.
So long story longer, if one is not intimately familiar with the process being discusses in many of the pub med articles they can lead one to believe something is bad or ineffective when in reality iodine supplementation has been used by many docs for many generations with excellent results. I know personally all of my thyroid labs have changed since I started iodine. I was in range and told "your fine" at the start by my symptoms said otherwise. Now my labs are still in range, generally just a couple tenths of a point higher but all my hypo symptoms are gone and I actually have to force myself to consume more food than I would normally eat to maintain my mass gained in the gym.
As for B12, its scientifically linked to fertility and if one digs hard enough you will probably find data to support that most people who use a fertility clinic are deficient in it or some other nutrient. Its also essential for proper nerve signaling and red blood cell creation. Its absorption is heavily influenced by gut health and other genetic factors with its primary source being animal protien, which as we age becomes harder and harder to digest. There is a vast population on the net suffering from B12 deficiency and they spend a lot of time on forums like this. With the input of thousands of supplementing individuals some brands clearly stood out as superior, source naturals being one of them and the brand I started with. The reason I have switched is because some of the places I used to order from online would take my order even if the product wasnt in stock and I would end up running out and have to grab what ever I could. This was also a good way for me to experiment with other brands. My testing methodology is not very scientific because I use my symptoms and how I feel as my guide. Im not going to spend the money on lab tests or doctors to tell me I am fine when my symptoms tell me otherwise.
The first thing I noticed when I started taking B12 was kind of a "high". Like I slammed a pot of coffee but without the jitters. Having consistently lifted in the gym for many years I generally dont get sore unless I have a week or more layoff. Out of no where I started getting sore, a very deep sore. Almost as if my body was able to recruit new muscle fibers previously untouched. This could be due to an improvement in nerve signalling as B12 is essential for nerve health. I also found my cardio sessions easier and my cardio performance began to improve. Once again just speculation (much like your mothers bruising and vit C) but B12 is critical for red blood cell health which carries oxygen. I alo had been suffering from an inability to sleep soundly, tossed and turned all night and maybe once every few months would actually sleep deep enough to dream. I started sleeping great and dreaming every night. Once I switched to a different brand my cardio performance waned and sleep began to deteriorate. Once back on source naturals sleep improved again and once again I got sore with no missed workouts.
When it comes to nutrition your very unlikely to find a smoking gun so to speak, most people, for a myriad of reasons, are at least mildly deficient in multiple nutrients. It didnt take me long to realize that trying to pinpoint specific causes and solution would not only be extremely difficult and time consuming but also delay the improvement in my quality of life so I simply took a holistic approach and added in everything I think I needed and then some.
As for DIM controlling estrogen, it has gotten high praise but I never mentioned DIM.
exitium wrote:Not only did I do my homework (gained knowledge) but I acted upon it and I am happy to report that my actions have served me well, basically addressing all of my quality of life issues the doctors refused to acknowledge. I have done the same for friends and family and they have all benefited as well. Most of them dont want to know the intricate details and probably wouldnt understand them, they just wanted help which the medical community has been denying them, which from the sounds of things is a scenario you are all too familiar with.
exitium wrote:Your above comment doesnt seem to ring true with your actions. what actions? telling my parents what to do? vague accusations like that arent helping anyoneOne minute you tell me action is what matters and the next you refuse to actanother incorrect/vague accusation because you want the knowledge (ie proof) before you act. Believe me, I can understand and sympathize with your skepticism, I was there once myself. After all, who wouldnt be the way that modern society pushes pills at us and the docs seems to brush off all of our quality of life issues as just part of getting old.
exitium wrote:While I didnt go into a whole lot of specifics, mainly because I dont readily have links to back my claim and honestly I am not going to waste the time digging them up, the takeaway here is that my opinion is you should start at the foundation. The same things you seem to believe about vit C apply to basically all nutrients:
1) When there is a shortage bodily process can not perform optimally
2) higher levels than what are needed for day to day operation are required to make up for a past shortage.
Think of it this way. You have a pool in your back yard. It looses 10 gallons a day to evaporation. Every sunday you run a hose over and add in 70 gallons and fill it back up. Now you go on vacation for 12 weeks and your pool is down (12*700 = 840) 840 gallons. You get home on a sunday and its back to your normal plan, you run a hose over to the pool and put in 70 gallons. Your still down 770 gallons from where you should be. Yes, its still a pool and you can still swim buts not full (ie optimal).
You cant go on vacation from consuming essential nutrients and just take in daily requirements and make up for past shortage.
P.S. Please note none of the above was meant to be inflammatory so please dont take it that way. I wouldnt have wasted the time writing it if all I wanted to do was insult you.
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