please advise.. 3 heart attacks & stenosis

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please advise.. 3 heart attacks & stenosis

Post Number:#1  Post by jpoww » Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:30 pm

i'll try to make this long story short. Back in 2005 my husband had his first heart attack at 35.He had high cholesteral and smoked but since has stop smoking. He had a drug eluted stent placed in him and the doctor put him on the usual meds, lipator, plavix and a low blood pressure medicine, asprin and nispan. Three months after that he had another blockage and they placed another stent (this one was not a heart attack). He stayed on his medications faithfully. Then in 2007 he had another blockage which they opened up with another stent. It wasnt a heart attack this time.
Then in late 2010 at a normal doctors check up his cardiologist noticed his white blood count was very low. the cardiologist along with a hemotologist suggested that he stop his plavix thinking it was the plavix causing the low white count. well within a week of him stopping the plavix he has a heart attack. the heart attack was from one of his existing stents clotting up again. so he was put on effient (blood thinner) this time and told never to stop taking the blood thinner again.
in the process of reseaching online my husband and I came across information about lipator and how bad it was for you. so I got in touch with an oriental medicine doctor and worked with her on slowly getting my husband off lipator and eventually the effient also.
we started reducing his lipator in early 2011 and eventually got him from taking one lipator a day to just one pill a week. at the sametime we were also reducing his blood thinners, he was down to only taking 4 a week. when we reduced the blood thinners we were supplementing with herbal thinners. we were watching his blood work carefully, checking his prothrombine time and homocystine levels along with cholesteral levels. we notice his cholesteral levels going up so we used red rice yeast and got his levels to a good spot. this was all done in a time frame from early 2011 and it wasnt until sept. 7 2012 he had yet another heart attack. this time the wait to get him to a cath lab was longer than normal and the doctor said he had cardiac shock and did have some damage to his heart. It was the same stent that got clogged again that need to be reopened.
The doctor only knew that we were not taking his lipator and that we were using red rice yeast and because of that, the doctor said it was the cause of the stent closing up again. he said to not take any herbal supplements and that lipator not only helps with lowering cholesteral but also helps in stabalizing plaque and to never get off of lipator or plavix again! since this heart attack he has now added two more medications to my husbands regime. he added amiodarone (for anti arrythimia) and Enalapril (ace inhibitor) he said my husbands heart beat was irratic the night of the heart attack and put him on that anti arrythmia medicine to help get it back to normal. my husband has never had high blood pressure but he put him on the ace inhibator anyway...now my husband has side effects from the Amiodarone , increase heart rate, consitpation and cant sleep. I called the doctor to tell him this and he tells me all medicines have side effects and that he has been using this medicine for 25yrs and if i felt there was a problem to bring him in to do blood work and an EKG. I'm thinking of cutting the dosage in half, this doctor will not stand for us to use anything other than what he prescribes. My question to you is, given my husbands history what do you think he should do? My husband has just started taking 4g of vit. c and we are about to start lysine and proline. any suggestions, thoughts are well appreciated.

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Re: please advise.. 3 heart attacks & stenosis

Post Number:#2  Post by Johnwen » Wed Oct 03, 2012 4:53 pm

I'll keep this brief get him on lysine NOW! at least 1500Mg. a day. With the V-C.
Then get a hold of the foundation and Order some Heart Tech or Cardio C.
Start him at 4 servings a day for now.
As far as the drugs he's taking there is no intereaction with any of them and the components in either of these products.
Get and take some CQ-10 at least 200mg. a day
Effient is very potent if he's under 200 lbs. no more then 10Mg.

The doctor only knew that we were not taking his lipator and that we were using red rice yeast and because of that, the doctor said it was the cause of the stent closing up again.


This is BS and tells me he's brain washed it's a shame he's probably a good doctor otherwise.

He should get his thyroid checked since Amiodarone can really mess it up and needs to be watched while he's taking it.
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Re: please advise.. 3 heart attacks & stenosis

Post Number:#3  Post by jpoww » Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:05 pm

After this last heart attack the doctor took him off effient and put him back on plavix 75mg. he said if his white count goes down again then he will put him back on effient. Also, I have him on CoQ10 right now at 200mg but I was about to put him on Ubiquinol kaneka's QH reduced form of CoQ10 at 200, is that ok to do or no?

The vitamin c he is on right now I got from a local doctor who does Vit.C IV's for cancer patients. He sells his own line of powdered vit. C . So is it ok that I keep him on that until I finish the container and then get him on Cardio C or Heart Tech?
Can I just go buy the Powdered Lysine and Proline and add that with his Vit. C? just til I finish this container of Vit. C.
So the dosage indivudial if I understand correctly will be
10,000mg of vitamin c
10,000mg of Lysine
2,000mg of proline
And this is all ok to take with his current prescription heart meds?
Hopefully this Amiodarone is temperary while his heart recovers. The doctor doesnt know yet for sure if he will be on this drug long term yet.

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Re: please advise.. 3 heart attacks & stenosis

Post Number:#4  Post by Johnwen » Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:16 pm

Also, I have him on CoQ10 right now at 200mg but I was about to put him on Ubiquinol kaneka's QH reduced form of CoQ10 at 200, is that ok to do or no?


If you already bought it then use it I prefer Ubiquinol.

Ok now we get complicated your going to have to firgure out how much C you have left and mix the other two together or you could mix it indiviually. However if your going to batch it use about 60% L-lysine that way if he takes 10grams of V-C over the day he'll get the 6grams of l-lysine which should be tops more then that he might start getting stomach problems also a level teaspoon = about 4grams. If you make a drink get some stevia to sweeten it up for him
Carlson sells a 100gram container of l-lysine.
L-proline your going to have to buy capsules if your mixing a batch figure a 500mg cap per day.
As far as the Amiodarone. Between us, I believe what he is having is Vasospasms and not arrithymya's. It's been my experience many peoples body's have problems with stents and usually get ticked off hearts that spasm trying to shake the stent out. Procardia which is a calcium channel blocker is my first choice on stented people. But he's not my patient and would need to know a lot more details of his case to really make a decision. That's why his doc is the best judge. Just a thought.
He'll be fine with the other drugs he's on with the V-C Mix. But I don't even want to talk about the Lipitor. MY OPINION!!! It's POISION,,(PERIOD!!!) :mrgreen:
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Re: please advise.. 3 heart attacks & stenosis

Post Number:#5  Post by jpoww » Thu Oct 04, 2012 3:45 am

The vitamin C I have is 1tsp = 4,000mg
lysine I have is 1 scoop=1000mg
proline is 1 scoop= 2000mg
I will mix them in a drink like you said. but the totals he should take is 10,000mg of vit.c , 6,000mg of lysine and 2000mg of proline correct?

I will see about asking the doctor about procardia and see what he says. I think after 3 months he will take him off amiodarone and Enalapril but if he doesnt I know my husband will gradually reduce those two pills until he is completely off them. My husband doesnt like lipator either and we had him almost completely off it but his stent closed up again and now we are starting all over again.
Do you have any idea why his stent keeps closing back up on him? it seems weird that this only happens when we try reducing either the blood thinner or the lipator, or both why is that? its making me think he will have to be on both meds for the rest of his life.

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Re: please advise.. 3 heart attacks & stenosis

Post Number:#6  Post by Johnwen » Thu Oct 04, 2012 9:42 am

We have went over this many times on this forum. I’ll review it for you.
Plaque is the bodies way of putting a bandage over a damaged area of the intima of the arteries. Which is the inner lining of the arteries this is composed of cells called endothiel. They are like the appearance of water lilies they overlap and compress together when the arteries constrict and provide a seal when the arteries relax an artery has a muscle wrapped around the inside which causes the relaxing and constriction. When these cells malfunction blood seeps past them causing coagulation and reduction of nitric oxide production at that area the body senses this problem and sends out a form of lipid called LP(a) which is the glue molucule which starts the cascade of events that results in the cholesterol forming a coating over the damaged area to prevent the loss of blood in this area. This damaged area is what DR. Pauling described as chronic scurvy which is because the cells don’t have the necessary components to stay healthy and begin to breakdown. He found Vitamin C which prevents scurvy which in advance stages are just the cells inability to stay glued together with coaligen and open wounds appear without external cause. Plaque is actually just the bodies way of bandaging a damaged area. Modern medicine uses the fireman approach to try and solve the problem. In this analogy it goes like this. A child sees a fire and sees fireman at the fire working on it. He sees another fire and once again he sees fireman. So in his mind the fireman are the cause of the Fire because their always at a fire. Remove the fireman and there won’t be any more fires!! Right?? Same thing with cholesterol remove the cholesterol which is fighting the damage and you won’t have any damage! RIGHT??
WRONG prevent the damage To begin with and it won’t have to do it’s job.
Your case Let’s put a wire braid in the artery and it cuts it’s way into the endothiel cells causing what? DAMAGE with the above info what happens next to this damaged area??? You now have your answer! What does L-Lysine do? We found that it all begins with the LP(a) molecule which sets up the glue for it all to begin. LP(a) has a affinity to dead tissue L-Lysine is chemically similar to dead tissue and attrachs LP(a) like a magnet and takes it back to the liver for out processing which in turn slows the action of the bandage formation well the V-C helps the cells repair the cells and get things back in order before the bandage action starts. We have seen results where it also has reversed fresh plaque and cleared the artery. However once it’s advanced to the stage where it becomes coated with calcium termed stabil plaque not much can be done but these usually don’t end up clogging the artery and can remain dorminant for years. I would suggest you review the forum and study Pauling’s and Klenner’s work to learn more. For now I hope it helps!!
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Re: please advise.. 3 heart attacks & stenosis

Post Number:#7  Post by jpoww » Thu Oct 04, 2012 11:19 am

Yes I understand this but it still confuses me that my husband has 3 stents, only one is continually clogging up. why not the other two?
two of those stents have been in since 2005 and the other since 2007. how can the body see these stents as forgein or damage if they have been in him for so long?
it doesnt make sense. if the body sees it as damage, shouldnt all three stents clot up all the time? and how come it only seems to clog and cause a heart attack only when we stop or gradually try to reduce his plavix or lipator?
do you think the stopping of either of these meds could cause these clots? ultimately he wants to stop taking prescription meds all together and the doctor just says as long as he has stents he will be on these meds for the rest of his life. I get worried because this is the second time we have tried to gradually stop his meds and each time a heart attack happened..i cant help but corralate the two. Am I crazy to think that or just hard headed in not understanding all this?

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Re: please advise.. 3 heart attacks & stenosis

Post Number:#8  Post by Johnwen » Thu Oct 04, 2012 2:11 pm

Ok I see what your saying but there is many factors at play here. Some being the type of stent such as bare metal or drug eluding if so what type of drug the stent was treated with, the lenght and diameter of the stent, the amount of pressure used to set the stent. Is the artery snake bellied? The location in the artery in comparsion to where the plaque was forming (damaged area), location in relation to a junction worse being LCA prior to the LAD. The location of the ostium in sinus of valsalva or any other anomallies of the arterial connection on and on. The point I was trying to make before is, "You have to stop the progression" and we have seen many times that Pauling protocal is the most effective means avaliable to do this. As far as his drugs Yes till things settle down and the damage is healed he will be best advised to remain on them. I covered what hapens when blood get's outside the artery intima, it has no where to go and begins to coagulate the anti platlet medicine (plavix,effient) keeps the blood slippery and makes it able to escape the damaged area without forming a clot which could then cause a stroke. The statin lowers the amount of bandaging material avaiable and since he already has a cover and new one's are forming till he gets things under controll and healed it might be a good idea to stay on it till he sees progress. Yes once he has been on PT for a few years he probably should get off this drug. With the stents and heart damage the plavix will probably be for the long haul.
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Re: please advise.. 3 heart attacks & stenosis

Post Number:#9  Post by jpoww » Thu Oct 04, 2012 5:47 pm

ok i'm beginning to understand a little more. Let me ask you a stupid question. If humans are lacking in vit.c and we are all mostly deficent in vit. c, and l-lysine is so beneficial in carrying lp(a) back to the liver and plays a vital role in heart disease, how come some people have heart attacks and others don't.
For example, both my husband and I have a family history of heart disease. Before reading abour PT, we didnt take much vit.c or lysine for that matter. why did he have a heart attack and not me? I guess what I'm saying is , if the arteries are always being damage and we are all deficent in vit. c, shouldnt more people be having heart attacks?

also, I want to read more about PT which book should I read that best explains all this?

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Re: please advise.. 3 heart attacks & stenosis

Post Number:#10  Post by Johnwen » Thu Oct 04, 2012 11:46 pm

First of all there is no such thing as a Stupid question. (PERIOD)
Only Sometimes Stupid answers. I will give you examples in regard to your question of why some people have heart attacks and some don’t.
This is the stupid answer you will get if you ask a mainstream physician this question. Which I have been taught to give also.
When a persons cholesterol is high, it contains nano size particles of cholesterol that become wedged in the endothelial cells of the arteries these particles start attracting other larger size particles of cholesterol which then start damaging the endothelial cells and makes a hole in the cells and more and more cholesterol start to form on top till they start blocking off the artery.
Causing blood to stop flowing thru the artery and causing the dependent cells down stream to die. NOTE: They say Cholesterol causes the damage, not that it repairs it!!!
What’s wrong with this theory? First of all they have not been able to Identify these starter molecules and last count There is over a thousand studies dedicated to this. (Most are sponsored by Big Pharma) But None-Zero have been able to put a finger on this elusive molecule. Why? Because it don’t exist But it don’t stop them trying.
Second the endothelial cells are held together with a substance called collagen which is a flexible glue. Kind of like caulk that fills in the cracks around sinks bath tubs etc. Their major components of collagen are V-C, L-Lysine, L-proline. Sound familiar?? This chalk prevents anything from crossing into the outer areas also.
Third, If this was the case we should have big globs of goo floating around everywhere even with low cholesterol. Causing damage to every part of the body.
So we can discount that theory! As I have!!
Now let’s look for a real reason. I have discussed Pauling’s theory and how lack of V-C causes the collagen (caulk) to deteriorate and separate the cells which then begin to allow blood to leak thru and the bodies way of dealing with this. So why do some get damaged and some don’t we have to look at the flow characteristics of the coronary arteries to find our answer.
First of all and a subject most medical people forget is that the coronary arteries don’t receive systolic or antegrade pressure but diastolic or retrograde pressures. For the simple reason that a contracted muscle cannot take blood in, When the ventricle’s are squeezed (contracted). Blood is pumped into the aorta thru the aortic valve which when open covers the openings (ostium) of the coronary arteries. Preventing high pressure form entering the Coronary arteries which cannot be accepted because the muscle is squeezed . Now the ventricles relax and the aortic valve closes and diastolic pressure fills the coronary arteries. Giving the ventricles there needed blood for the next stroke.
At the same time the atrieoles are squeezing blood in filling the ventricles. They cannot receive blood because they are sqeezing. Then the ventricles squeeze opening the aortic valve trapping the residual blood in the coronary arteries which is pushed to the aterioles which are relaxed at this point and they are much smaller muscles and don’t need a high volume of blood, receive their nourishment.
Simple recap: The heart receives it’s blood during the diastolic phase while it’s relaxed.
What can go wrong?? Let’s say we have a coronary artery with weak collagen holding the cells together but their still functioning to a limit. Let’s move over to where the coronary arteries start in the sinus of valsalva which is the home of the aortic valve. As mentioned the cusps of the valve cover the openings of the coronary arteries when the valve is open preventing the high pressure blood from entering the arteries but what happens if the cusps are a little deformed or the ostium is angled in some odd fashion or odd location.
Now the high pressure blood is allowed to enter the arteries which are weakened to begin with? Yep they’ll start to fail. Common YES! 30 % of the people walking this earth have a anomaly in this area. Current estimates are 50% of the people alive today have high blood pressure added problem to the weaken coronary arteries. So that not so big problem of lack of collagen in the endothelial cells of the coronary arteries is rapidly becoming a job for cholesterol to start patching up a gapping crack caused by the high pressures, allowing blood to enter the outer layer of the artery.
Healthy arteries can handle the higher pressures, compromised arteries will definitely need repair.
So in reality only you can answer your question. Sit down with pen and paper write down your daily activities and on the other side of the page his before his attack and compare who had the more stress. Who’s BP would be elevated higher and how long, added to the food and so forth.
This information I provided along with a review of different although together lifestyles are what sent him forward with his problem.
Again the building blocks of the life saving collagen is Vitamin C, L-Lysine, L-Proline !!!
I’ll let Owen recommend the reading materials. He’s the book guru and good one at that.
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Re: please advise.. 3 heart attacks & stenosis

Post Number:#11  Post by jpoww » Fri Oct 05, 2012 3:35 am

I understand. Do you think some people are genetically predisposed to this? My mom is 65, her father died of a massive heart attack when she was younger and she smokes, is over weight and has high blood pressure (she is on meds) yet she hasnt had a heart attack. My husband 43, is on his third one. Its incredible.
Thank you so much for taking time out to answer my questions and educated me. I really appreciate it.
I look forward to Owen's answer on any reading material for me.

thank you again

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Re: please advise.. 3 heart attacks & stenosis

Post Number:#12  Post by ofonorow » Fri Oct 05, 2012 9:46 am

Trying to catch up. I think johnwen's responses were outstanding and this is a good dosage target
I will mix them in a drink like you said. but the totals he should take is 10,000mg of vit.c , 6,000mg of lysine and 2000mg of proline correct?

rather than the 10,000 mg of lysine in your earlier message!

However, some people require even more than 10,000 mg of vitamin C. (It is probably a good idea to add 1 or 2 packets of Lypo-C on top. Should not cause bowel issues, and this is roughly equivalent to taking 5000 to 10,000 mg of ordinary oral vitamin C.)

Having a problem with one stent tells me that this particular stent caused or is causing more damage to that artery (perhaps size or something else.)

Maybe at this point, it would be better to tell us whether you still have any outstanding questions?

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® is a trademark of the Institute for Orthomolecular Studies

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Re: please advise.. 3 heart attacks & stenosis

Post Number:#13  Post by jpoww » Fri Oct 05, 2012 11:38 am

ok so he should be on
10,000mg of vit. c
6,000mg of lysine
2,000mg of proline and 1 or 2 packets of Lypo-C
is this correct?

as far as the stent goes, I guess there is nothing he can do about that one stent that keesp closing up on him right? well besides starting this protocal.
he had his last heart attack on sept. 7 2012
he is on
75mg of plavix
80mg of lipator
325 of ecotrin
200mg of amiodarone
Enalapri ( i dont know that dosage of hand)
so he should stay on these meds for now right? at what point can he reduce any prescriptions meds? and which ones?
In general I was just trying to understand why there are some people like me or my mother, who are overweight, smoke, have high blood pressure and poor eating habits yet they never have a heart attack and my husband is on his third one..and he is on so called drugs that are supose to help him not have a heart attack! how can this be?
and i'm frustrated with how everytime we try to reduce his lipator or his plavix he has a heart attack.
Any books I can read to help me understand this more? I hate to keep bothering you all with the same quesitons.

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Re: please advise.. 3 heart attacks & stenosis

Post Number:#14  Post by ofonorow » Fri Oct 05, 2012 2:24 pm

everytime we try to reduce his lipator or his plavix he has a heart attack.


If it were me, I might try to reduce my lipitor by itself, and reduce slowly, first from 80 to 60 mg for a few days, then 40.. all the way down to 10 for awhile... etc. That should help him a great deal, especially as you concurrently add vitamin C and lysine.

It is possible that the "super" aspirin plavix is having an effect that prevents the MI - coagulation. So that when it stops, he has a heart attack.

You can try to wean this later as his heart and cardiovascular health improves.

As far as why something works in some people - we are all different. Pauling/Hoffer called it biochemical individuality, and Pauling has a good discussion of it in his book HOW TO LIVE LONGER AND FEEL BETTER.
Owen R. Fonorow, Orthopath® (Orthomolecular Naturopath)
® is a trademark of the Institute for Orthomolecular Studies

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Re: please advise.. 3 heart attacks & stenosis

Post Number:#15  Post by jpoww » Fri Oct 05, 2012 6:28 pm

whats the difference between the vit. c in lypo-c vs vit.c in cardio-c? the vit. c he is on now is absoric acid.
you suggested he take 1-2 packets of lypo-c on top of the 10,000mg vit.c , is thats that 1-2 packets of lypo-c daily?


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