My PT Journal (stroke)

The discussion of the Linus Pauling vitamin C/lysine invention for chronic scurvy

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farside
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My PT Journal (stroke)

Post Number:#1  Post by farside » Fri Feb 07, 2020 12:35 pm

My first post.

I'm a male, in my early 60's, and suffered a small stroke in mid-January 2020.
At first it was thought to be a Transient Ischaemic Attack (TIA), since I recovered after 30 minutes except for facial droop. An MRI brain scan showed a small area of damage, and a Ultrasound + CT scan showed a 63% blockage in the left carotid artery, at the branch point (presumed to be the culprit!). Their report stated "Given the size of some of the vertebral artery foramina this appears long-standing." No other concerns / blockages were found.
I was discharged from hospital after 1 week and put on Clopidogrel and Atorvastatin (which I immediately stopped taking when I got home and I replaced with 75mg daily aspirin). The doctors advised I should have a carotid endarterectomy, i.e. cut open the carotid and scrape out the blockage. I declined.

I don't smoke, have only the very occasional glass of wine, train with weights 3 times a week, not overweight and no other health issues. 2.5 years ago I went Vegan. I take B-complex, serrapeptase (250k iu/day) + other supplements and 2g Vitamin C (VC) every day. I thought I was protected!

So why did I get a stroke?

I think the reasons may have been:
(1) The blockage was probably formed over the 50+ years I was eating meat and diary products.
(2) I did not do enough cardiovascular exercise (I have a desk job).
(3) Doing weights (e.g. bench presses) might stress the neck arteries too much.
(4) Since going vegan, I tended to consume more salt, which damages the arteries.
(5) 2g Vit C on its own does not prevent or clear blockages - you need Lysine as well!
(6) I was taking buffered Vit C, which contained Calcium Ascorbate - probably a bad choice.
(7) I was taking on and off 50mg DHEA and pregnenolone - can't be sure they are to blame, however.

Were there any warning signs?

In retropect, possibly so. I was showing symptoms of Erectile Dysfunction (ED), having the occasional spell of dizziness,
seeing pulsating in the back of the eye when doing bench presses. I also noted my gums and teeth weren't doing so well. For at least 10 years I have had a small blind area in my left eye and tinnitus in my left ear - I can't be sure that these are connected, though.

So while in hospital I researched PT and arranged to have the ingredients posted home. At the time I read somewhere that VC and lysine should be in equal amounts, so when I got home I started taking 15g of VC and 15g (1) of lysine per day for two/three days, until I realised I should only be taking a max of 6g/day of lysine.

After a few days I got a very itchy rash on my upper back and chest and on my right wrist. It looked like measles. I have no idea if this was due to the excessive lysine, or whether it was a reaction to the iodine injection I had when they did my CT scan. The rash gradually disappeared over about 4 days.

Also I found my blood pressure was around 120/75 at home, while in hospital it was around 140/80. I don't know if this fall in pressure was due to the mega lysine dose or due to me using a different blood pressure monitor.

My PT regime is now:
Vit C as ascorbic acid : 15 to 18 g/day in ~4 doses
Lysine powder : ~6g / day
Proline capsules : 2g / day
Vit K2 : 300mcg/day
Vit E : 400iu/day
L-Carnitine : 1 to 2g/day
N-Acetyl-Cysteine : 1 to 2g/day

Other supplements:
Vit D3 : 2x2000iu / day
Zinc : 30mg(elemental) /day
Strong B complex (with methyl versions of B12 and folic acid)
Magnesium : 400mg elemental/day
Liposomal Alpha-lipoic acid : 600mg/day
Gastrodin (Tian Ma) extract : 250mg/day
Artichoke extract 2x500mg/day
Astaxanthin 12mg/day
Vegan EPA+DHA : 2x300mg /day
Pine bark extract : 2x100mg/day
Hydroxytyrosol (in olive leaf extract) : 50mg / day
Arginine and citruline powder: whenever I remember / can fit it in!
Aged garlic : 2x600mg/day

(Note: I have updated the above list in post #17)

I don't seem to have reached Bowel Tolerance (BT) level with my VC dose, but my stomach gurgles a lot and I pass enough wind to increase global warming by about 1 deg C.

I have now noticed an improvement in my gums and teeth since starting the PT.
However, strangley, I have found wound healing on the skin of my hands is slower.
Maybe I need more protein and zinc?

Recently (for 1 week now) I have started to apply a 50% solution of DMSO twice daily to my neck. I hope this is a good thing to be doing!

I will post updates as soon as I have anything of significance to report.

I will be seeking another ultrasound scan in about 3 or 4 months time to see if this protocol is making progress in removing the carotid blockage.

Any comments on the above protocal are welcome, thanks.
Last edited by farside on Mon Feb 24, 2020 11:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: My PT Journal (stroke)

Post Number:#2  Post by ofonorow » Sat Feb 08, 2020 12:51 pm

other supplements and 2g Vitamin C (VC) every day. I thought I was protected!


As you have discovered, there is a wide range in the requirement we humans have for vitamin C, as we do not make it and must eat it to exist.

Many years ago, when I was speaking to patients and doctors over the phone, I would ask how much vitamin C they took regularly before their episode. The answers were similar, and usually, low. Either they didn't supplement, and relied on their foods, or perhaps 500 to 1000 mg to help protect from colds. I never received a call from any heart patient who reported taking more than 5000 mg per day, so I made the conjecture that no one taking more than 10,000 mg of vitamin C daily suffers heart disease. I am still waiting for the unique individual who takes that much and still had heart disease (atherosclerosis). So the proximate cause of your stroke, in my opinion, is our genetic defect and your requirement for vitamin C that exceeds 2000 mg daily. I like your new protocol, but have to comment on some of you bullet points:


I think the reasons may have been:
(1) The blockage was probably formed over the 50+ years I was eating meat and diary products.

From Pauling, we learn the specific root cause is the lack of vitamin C - not "fat" per se, in the diet. Low vitamin C, creates a low-grade form of scurvy, which weakens blood vessels. The body adjusts to the weakness by creating Lp(a) cholesterol-based plaques, that as Dr. Rath explains, act as plaster casts. (Recently we learn that there are good reasons to avoid dairy/eggs (feed certain viruses) and that reducing fat promotes the health of the liver, and meat contains a lot of fat.

(2) I did not do enough cardiovascular exercise (I have a desk job).

Without vitamin C, in theory, exercise may have sped up the CAD process by weakening your arteries sooner. Nothing wrong with exercise, for a host of good reasons, but exercise cannot replace the missing vitamin C.

(3) Doing weights (e.g. bench presses) might stress the neck arteries too much.

Granted, but with the proper amount of vitamin C, there would be no risk to intense exercise.

(4) Since going vegan, I tended to consume more salt, which damages the arteries.

To my (our) knowledge, salt does not damage the arteries, and unrefined salt contains over 80 minerals and is much like a health food. The sodium content of the blood is higher than any other electrolyte and matches the concentration in sea water. Brownstien found research showing that those on a salt restricted diet (as the body strives to maintain what little sodium is available) are something like 400 times more likely to suffer a heart attack. Ref: SALT (by David Brownstein). Recent news is that low salt increases uric acid levels, leading to the increase in fat production by the liver. This youtube indicates that it is much safer to be on the high side, rather than the low side of salt intake. Ref: https://youtu.be/-ygExIZm7Wo

(5) 2g Vit C on its own does not prevent or clear blockages - you need Lysine as well!

To some extent, it is true that while C can arrest the development of heart disease, The Pauling/Rath invention of Lp(a) Binding Inhibitors, e.g. high lysine, is apparently required to reverse CVD.

(6) I was taking buffered Vit C, which contained Calcium Ascorbate - probably a bad choice.

Was it Ester-C? We are changing our mind regarding this version of C, which is, in part, Calcium Ascorbate. I'd very much like to know if the 2 grams you were taking were Ester-C.

(7) I was taking on and off 50mg DHEA and pregnenolone - can't be sure they are to blame, however.

I don't see how taking these could do any harm, and are probably supplements most heart patients should consider. However, we learn from Pauling that the root cause of CVD is pretty simple - a vitamin C deficiency.
Owen R. Fonorow, Orthopath® (Orthomolecular Naturopath)
® is a trademark of the Institute for Orthomolecular Studies

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Re: My PT Journal (stroke)

Post Number:#3  Post by farside » Sun Feb 09, 2020 1:31 pm

(6) I was taking buffered Vit C, which contained Calcium Ascorbate - probably a bad choice.
Was it Ester-C?

No, it was :
Natures Aid Vitamin C Low Acid, 1000mg (a mix of AA, Calcium Ascorbate, Sodium Ascorbate).

Your comments are extremely interesting, esp. on salt - I need to start a topic on that.
Topic started here:
http://vitamincfoundation.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=14765

There is a controversy that it is the chloride ion rather than the sodium that raises blood pressure. Taking sodium bicarbonate doesn't raise BP, apparently.
Last edited by farside on Wed Feb 19, 2020 1:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: My PT Journal (stroke)

Post Number:#4  Post by farside » Mon Feb 10, 2020 2:10 pm

Today I took 500mg of niacin (have used it on and off in the past) before exercise bike in the morning. Got the flush, but felt somehow not right - very tired - maybe brought blood pressure down too much. Could feel my pulse around my left side of my neck while exercising. Will lay off the high dose niacin for now.

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Re: My PT Journal (stroke)

Post Number:#5  Post by farside » Mon Feb 10, 2020 2:18 pm

ofonorow wrote:

Code: Select all

Low vitamin C, creates a low-grade form of scurvy, ...


Totally agree, but does this imply that if I had consumed 10g of VC a day (and no other supplements such as lysine, etc) while I was a meat eater for 50+ years, I would not have got arterial disease? (e.g. big cats eat meat without getting arterial disease because they make their own VC).

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Re: My PT Journal (stroke)

Post Number:#6  Post by jimmylesante » Tue Feb 11, 2020 11:02 am

500mg niacin will vasodilate you which in turn drops your blood pressure.
I like your list,i would probably increase the magnesium.
Also avoid any chiropractor manipulations.
Interesting that you are a desk job--perhaps long term positional may be the cause????? Phone in crook of left neck whilst typing/using right hand?

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Re: My PT Journal (stroke)

Post Number:#7  Post by farside » Tue Feb 11, 2020 2:10 pm

Phone in crook of left neck whilst typing/using right hand?

No, I don't do that! But I do sit still for long periods either typing or staring at the screen (I'm a programmer).

I still hear/feel heartbeat in my left ear while doing cardio. Wonder if that is due to the blockage? Also wonder if the reason the left carotid was affected and not the right is because it may be nearer to the heart?

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Re: My PT Journal (stroke)

Post Number:#8  Post by farside » Thu Feb 13, 2020 10:27 am

However, strangley, I have found wound healing on the skin of my hands is slower.
Maybe I need more protein and zinc?


I am thinking of including hydrolysed collagen to fix this, along with my very dry skin:

"In one study, 31 healthy adults took 16 grams of collagen daily for six months. By the end, they had experienced a significant reduction in measures of artery stiffness compared to before they started taking the supplement"
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5429168/

Would this be a wise move? Could it worsen plaque?

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Re: My PT Journal (stroke)

Post Number:#9  Post by farside » Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:37 am

The DMSO is drying out the skin on my neck - maybe it is removing the layer of surface oil.

So today I tried drinking about 10ml of the 50% DMSO solution.
I felt quite nauseous at first, then chugged down some water, which helped.
Went for a walk afterwards, and didn't get sick.

So might try this again - unless someone warns me not too!

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Re: My PT Journal (stroke)

Post Number:#10  Post by farside » Mon Feb 17, 2020 8:44 am

Yesterday I ate two vegan sausage rolls. Tasty, but 1.1g salt each, so they alone bumped my salt intake way beyond what I would like.
However yesterday and today my blood pressure did not increase (actually fell a little). I put that down to the high VC intake, which apparently offsets damage due to excess salt.

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Re: My PT Journal (stroke)

Post Number:#11  Post by farside » Wed Feb 19, 2020 1:31 pm

Not drinking DMSO anymore.
I found that my forearms don't get dry skin when DMSO is applied to them, so this is what I'll be doing for now.

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Re: My PT Journal (stroke)

Post Number:#12  Post by Robert » Fri Feb 21, 2020 6:28 pm

Very thought provoking post farside and sobering for me as a fellow vegan.

I'm retiring from weight training at 55. I don't like the stress and strain; I'm worried about blood pressure spikes and am fed up of hearing about shoulder replacements. I think the Concept2 rower and yoga will be enough for me.

Wow, your supplementation routine is extensive. I take a UK Linus Pauling inspired product and a few vegan products.

I follow a plain whole food diet, I wouldn't touch the sausage rolls or the salt.

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Re: My PT Journal (stroke)

Post Number:#13  Post by farside » Sat Feb 22, 2020 10:44 am

I take a UK Linus Pauling inspired product

Can you say what the product is?

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Re: My PT Journal (stroke)

Post Number:#14  Post by Robert » Sat Feb 22, 2020 1:17 pm

I take LP5 by Hellenia. It has 6g Vitamin C, the amino acids Proline, Lysine, Glysine and has fish collagen: I don't care because I'm vegan for health not for the animals or the planet: no fat, no mercury, no cholesterol so I'm fine with it. I'm not importing products when I can get stuff with free postage in the UK.

I just sent some to my mother after she told me she's been diagnosed with CHD yesterday.

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Re: My PT Journal (stroke)

Post Number:#15  Post by farside » Sat Feb 22, 2020 2:04 pm

Thanks Robert.

As for weight training, I may simply return to using much smaller weights and doing plenty of reps. I still would like to feel that muscle burn! Well, when I'm better anyway!


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