A relevant question on cholesterol

The discussion of the Linus Pauling vitamin C/lysine invention for chronic scurvy

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scottbushey
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A relevant question on cholesterol

Post Number:#1  Post by scottbushey » Fri Aug 26, 2011 9:34 am

Having exhausted this topic, I am now comfortable with the fact that cholesterol numbers are essentially genetic, that they have no clinical correlation with cardiac disease, that dietary intake of cholesterol does not effect personal cholesterol numbers; The cholesterol hypothesis is total bunk!

Having said all of this, my question to the elite here on the board, why would you not hold to this same rationale when the topic comes up? Why do you still focus on the numbers when the topic of high cholesterol is mentioned.

The term itself, 'high cholesterol' is silly. One would need a standard to draw from to make this conclusion; since the standard that we presently have is flawed, there is no standard.

The Cholesterol Myth exposed - Dr Malcolm Kendrick speaks about
World Health Organisation data:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=i8SSCNaaDcE#!

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Re: A relevant question on cholesterol

Post Number:#2  Post by ofonorow » Sun Aug 28, 2011 3:48 am


Having said all of this, my question to the elite here on the board, why would you not hold to this same rationale when the topic comes up? Why do you still focus on the numbers when the topic of high cholesterol is mentioned.


I agree with your conclusions.

Speaking for myself, the only cholesterol number I find interesting is total cholesterol, per chart on page 200 of HTLLAFB (paperback) and another discussion earlier in book speaking of sugar/cholesterol study in prisoners by Mintz. These studies determined that 180 mg/dl is the "normal" cholesterol level in these experiments, and Ginter found that vitamin C intake "regulates" total cholesterol to 180 mg/dl.

Ergo, total cholesterol can be used as a tool to help determine whether someone's vitamin C intake is optimal. (Nothing to do per se with heart disease.)
Owen R. Fonorow, Orthopath® (Orthomolecular Naturopath)
® is a trademark of the Institute for Orthomolecular Studies

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Re: A relevant question on cholesterol

Post Number:#3  Post by jknosplr » Wed Oct 19, 2011 12:22 am

(Nothing to do per se with heart disease.)


What I have read here, cholesterol according to you has a lot to do with heart disease. Rather than causing it is a marker as to weather one has it. E.g as the cholesterol level increases on can assume according to Pauling that we have a break down of the intima of the artery (the plaster patch begins to form). The cholesterol is a response to this condition produced by the liver, as stated by the board. If cholesterol is at he normal of 180 all is well (we hope) over that number say 240 one may start looking for of other markers, CRP for example. The real marker is the MI, then its too late. We all take our heath for granted until the shoe drops then all scramble for the fix.
If cholesterol blockages are not causing death in America through MI's what is?

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Re: A relevant question on cholesterol

Post Number:#4  Post by ofonorow » Wed Oct 19, 2011 3:29 am

as the cholesterol level increases on can assume according to Pauling that we have a break down of the intima of the artery


Perhaps, but cholesterol also increases due to toxic load, and perhaps other factors. If the high cholesterol indicates low vitamin C levels, then yes, over time, we would expect chronic scurvy to weaken and break down the intima of the arteries close to the heart, leading to the common hallmarks of cardiovascular disease. Increasing vitamin C intake should not only heal the vascular system, it has a known property of regulating cholesterol to 180 mg/dl.

If cholesterol blockages are not causing death in America through MI's what is?


Inadequate vitamin C intake. Chronic (focal) scurvy. (For all the ramifications, I highly recommend Dr. Levy's STOP AMERICA'S #1 KILLER.)
Owen R. Fonorow, Orthopath® (Orthomolecular Naturopath)
® is a trademark of the Institute for Orthomolecular Studies

VanCanada

Lipidologist Dr. Dayspring Explains The Truth About Choleste

Post Number:#5  Post by VanCanada » Fri Aug 24, 2012 6:17 pm

Image
I will be posting later the notes I took from an interview of Dr. Thomas Dayspring by Jimmy Moore. Dr. Dayspring is one doctor who makes a whole lot of sense, while speaking from extensive clinical experience. A rare bird indeed, I think!

In brief, Dr. Dayspring says the best test currently available is the N.M.R. test. However, with the more common blood tests you can still find useful information in your total triglyceride level and your H.D.L. level. He says your total cholesterol reading is useless (or worse) information that can only prod clueless doctors into prescribing useless (or worse) drugs.


Jimmy Moore wrote:It’s not often we are privileged to have someone quite like lipidologist Dr. Thomas Dayspring joining us on the podcast. After being in private medical practice for 36 years helping his patients understand the importance (or lack thereof) of their cholesterol results, he has turned his attention to educating his fellow physicians, medical school students and laypeople alike on the various intricacies of advanced lipoprotein testing like the N.M.R. Lipoprofile test through his very popular lectures given all across the United States. He is THE go-to expert on the subject of lipids and what they mean as you’ll quickly hear in today’s interview. Listen in as Jimmy gets Dr. Dayspring to get to the heart of the issue regarding what cholesterol test results really mean and the key marker in determining your overall health that nobody is talking about. This podcast is a keeper and will surely stir the pot of controversy a time or two by the end. ENJOY!
- http://www.thelivinlowcarbshow.com/shownotes/6371/585-lipidologist-dr-thomas-dayspring-explains-the-truth-about-cholesterol/



- The direct download link to this podcast MP3 file is:
http://traffic.libsyn.com/llvlcshow/LLVLC-ep-585-dr-thomas-dayspring.mp3


- Dr. Daysprings's biography:
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/thomas-dayspring-md-facp-fnla-ncmp/6/a87/3aa
Thomas Dayspring, MD FACP, FNLA, NCMP
Director of Cardiovascular Education at Foundation for Health Improvement and Technology (FHIT)
Wayne, New Jersey (Greater New York City Area)
Medical Practice


- Foundation For Health Improvement And Technology
http://www.fhit.org/


- Dr. Dayspring and Gary Taubes interviewed in December 2011 in a series of videos presented by a physician-directed company called Specialty Health
http://livinlavidalowcarb.com/blog/specialty-health-low-carb-video-series-with-gary-taubes-and-dr-thomas-dayspring/13417

VanCanada

Dr Thomas Dayspring interview by Jimmy Moore

Post Number:#6  Post by VanCanada » Sun Sep 09, 2012 2:37 pm

Dr. Thomas Dayspring interview by Jimmy Moore on 'Livin' La Vida Low Carb' podcast #585
Podcast notes by VanCanada of Vancouver, Canada (Part 1 of 2)

Minute 3: Dr. Dayspring did his medical residency in the 1970's.

Minute 4:
--> He (Dr. Dayspring) has given over four thousand talks "trying to bring health care professionals up to par on the radically changing science of lipidology".
--> His talks have been given in all fifty states and several countries around the world.
--> He was awarded the highest honor of his life by the National Lipid Association with their 2011 President's Award, given to one person per year for contributions to clinical lipidology. "It's kind of amazing a real world lipidologist wound up there."

Minute 5:'
--> The science of lipidology has so radically changed. "What most doctors were taught in their training (in) medical school, even up until recently, is pretty much dead wrong."

Minute 11:
--> "The sine qua non for atherosclerosis is you have to have sterols in your artery wall. If you do not, you do not have this disease, you cannot die of this disease, you cannot have any morbidity to this disease. So, cholesterol is the killer, but ONLY if it's in your artery wall."
--> Cholesterol is necessary for life.
--> The cholesterol in our blood doesn't kill us, only the cholesterol in the artery walls.
--> There is no correlation between the cholesterol in our blood and the cholesterol in our artery walls.

Minute 14:
--> The only way lipids (cholesterol, fatty acids, and triglycerides) are trafficked in plasma are as passengers in protein wrapped vehicles called lipoproteins.

--> To make lipids soluble they are wrapped with proteins called apo-lipoproteins. "The whole protein wrapped fat ball is called a lipoprotein".

Minute 15:
--> People with a normal number of lipoproteins (a number that can be cleared by either the liver or the intestines) remain healthy and don't get atherosclerosis. If one has a greater number of a certain lipoprotein than can be cleared by the intestines or liver, then that lipoprotein will crash the artery wall and create plaque there. A lipoprotein that crashes the arterial wall is called an atherogenic lipoprotein. It is like a dump truck in Dr. Dayspring's home state of New Jersey that's called an 'illegal dumper'.

Minute 16:
--> You can't get heart disease if the lipoproteins don't crash the artery wall. It doesn't matter how much cholesterol the lipoproteins are carrying.

--> A high total cholesterol may not be good, but if the cholesterol doesn't enter the artery wall you're not at risk for heart disease. A high number of LDL particles is a bad sign, a sign of atherogenesis. A low number of HDL is also a bad sign.

Minute 17:
--> In medicine it had just been assumed that the amount of cholesterol (HDL, LDL and LDL subtypes) was a predictor of the number of lipoprotein particles. "But there is very little truth to that". In some people they correspond to one another, in other people they do not. Where they do not they are called "discordant". The cholesterol amount and the lipoprotein particle number are not correlated; they are not predictive. "You can have a high cholesterol level and normal particle number (which would be a low risk) [edit: and which often leads to unnecessary use of statins {like a false positive diagnosis?}]. Or a normal cholesterol level and nightmare particle number, in which case you are at risk for heart disease" [edit: like a false negative diagnosis?]. Everything comes down to management of lipoprotein particle number.

Minute 18:
--> Why do we use statins? "Statins upregulate a protein in the liver that grabs these atherogenic particles and pulls them back into the liver. Of course we would rather those particles go back to the liver for catabolism than enter the artery wall. Of course the total cholesterol will go down, BUT the key question is "Did the statin drug remove the proper number of LDL particles?" If it did, the statin saved your life. If the statin removed enough particles to lower your LDL cholesterol amount but there is still an excessive number left behind, those are the people that get events on statin therapy."

--> "This is why clinicians, when they follow at risk people, would do a MUCH better job if they were counting particles rather than assaying how much cholesterol is collectively in those particles."

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Re: A relevant question on cholesterol

Post Number:#7  Post by Johnwen » Sun Sep 09, 2012 4:34 pm

So, cholesterol is the killer, but ONLY if it's in your artery wall."


The question: How did it get in there and what caused it to go to a specific artery.

This is how they dance around Pauling's theory of scurvy developed cracks in the intima. Caused by lack of Vitamin C. You'll also notice he dosen't say anything about why or what the cholesterol's job is while it's attached to the intima. This once again goes back to the fireman analogy. "Since fireman are at a Fire they must have caused the fire!!"
He mentions new docs learning the wrong things I beg to differ with him. Most of the newby's are starting to realize that a injury starts the cascade of events but most don't know why an injury occurs or why the cholesterol sticks there. Most are looking for the magic molocule that starts this event. I usally just tell them the patient got razor's in their blood and let them figure it out.
So to sum this guy up! He's on BIG PHARMA's payroll what do you think he's going to say!!
To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism. To steal from many is
research!

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Re: A relevant question on cholesterol

Post Number:#8  Post by jozzee » Tue Sep 11, 2012 12:45 am

I always tell the doctor to stop ordering the total cholesterol, LDL, HDL labs for my mom. The only related labs that I let him order is Oxidized LDL, fibrin, homo cysteine and C-reactive protein HS.


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