Unknown illness, at bowel tolerance, effective Lypo-C dosage

[noxvg01]

I have an illness that causes (primarily) dull persistent headache, fatigue/very low energy level, and. . . I'm not sure what to call it, severe brain fog, cloudy thinking, poor concentration and memory, that kind of thing. These symptoms have been daily/chronic for 8 years, though I did have problems with them for another 9 years before that. I have been to some 40 doctors and specialists over the years, but the source and name of the illness remains an unknown.

Recent personal research online has led me to the Vitamin C Foundation forums, and I have been taking ascorbic acid orally. I am at bowel tolerance, which for me is 47,500 mg a day; 2,500 mg taken every 45 minutes during waking hours.

What I have noticed thus far:
- An infrequent tingling sensation near where the pain is, the sensation being more likely to happen when I use a rebounder (this never happened on a rebounder before when off the C).
- A jittery feeling, like I should have more energy, but instead I am just as weak as before.
- Some days more pain, and that usually in the latter half of the day. Last night I had stabbing pain on the ride side of my forehead.
- Sometimes my mind is even more clouded.
- Occasional nausea.

I have just under three boxes of Lypo-Spheric Vitamin C. 84 packets, to be exact. I will be adding Lypo-C to the current dosage of ascorbic acid, until the packets are gone. I would like to determine with as much certainty as I can whether vitamin C is something that will provide a measure of healing.

What is the most effective way I can use to determine if this is really something that could provide benefit, using only the 3 boxes that I have?

Take some packets one day, more the next, and keep increasing to see what will happen?

Take a whole box at one time?

Take 10+ packets every hour for a few hours?
From Dr. Klenner's method of IV treatment for severe illness, but using Lypo-C instead. (My illness is not severe in the sense of life-threatening, rather it is chronic and in some ways debilitating.)

For a very severe illness. . . . He gave at least 350 mg per kilogram of body weight. . . . repeated every hour for 6 to 12 times. . .

350 mg * 74 (body weight, kg) * 2.5 (convert IV potency to AA) / 5 (convert to minimum Lypo-C potency) = 12950 mg = 13 packets
Perhaps since I am already taking just under 50,000 mg of ascorbic acid daily, I could lower that to about 10 packets an hour.

Something else?

Whichever method I use, should I also take extra right before bed?

I just want to make the best use of the Lypo-C that I have, to see if it will work. I look forward to the input, and thank all who have provided so much information on this site, especially Owen.

Regards,

David

[Johnwen]

This sounds like it's right up Owen's Alley!!

To me it sounds like a classic case of Adrenal Fatigue that already affected the thyroid.
Especially after seeing over 40 Doc's and the tingle at the pain sites on high C. 8 Years!!!
There's other hormones in play here also so it would be good to know your age and M or F.
Also has there been any stressful situations back when this all started Such as death in the family, loss or change of job, sudden change in health, car accident, divorce etc.???
Do/did you consider your job stressful?
This can give him an idea what's going on when he gets back with us.
He's the lypo Guru so he can guide you there also.
Hang in there help is here!!!!

[VanCanada]

I have an illness that causes (primarily) dull persistent headache, fatigue/very low energy level, and. . . I'm not sure what to call it, severe brain fog, cloudy thinking, poor concentration and memory, that kind of thing. These symptoms have been daily/chronic for 8 years, though I did have problems with them for another 9 years before that. I have been to some 40 doctors and specialists over the years, but the source and name of the illness remains an unknown.

I suggest reading Andy Cutler's two books. You might be experiencing Amalgam Illness.

If you like, I could transcribe for you Cutler's supplement recommendations for brain fog and memory from his 1999 book.

Good luck.

[noxvg01]

Johnwen, thank you. I am a 27-year-old male. I had a thyroid problem in my later growing up years, but it was treated, and the last three tests have all been normal. My family and I have tried to think of a stressful situation that may have resulted in my condition, but attempting to do so is exacerbated by the fact that the problems came on slow when I was young, and got worse over time.

Work, when I did, was very difficult because the more I exert myself mentally or physically, the worse my symptoms become, but that is the case whether doing work or a hobby or anything else.


VanCanada, I have been tested for heavy metals in the past and nothing has come up. Though one of your links maintains that blood and urine tests may not be enough. I will have to look into this further.

Thank you for the offer of transcribing Cutler's protocol. I will let you know.

[ofonorow]

First, after you reached your 47 g bowel tolerance vitamin C dosage - did you notice any beneficial effects/improvements?

If Johnwen's guess is correct - you are young, and you were much younger when this started - then it would be highly unusual. I'll have to reread your post, but do you have or have you had joint pain, even years ago? I've notice that when cortisol is low, the joints of the fingers and toes are the first to swell and become painful. Then any existing injury becomes worse (inflames).

Your pain is in the head, correct?

Now, even if the proximate cause isn't adrenal fatigue/low cortisol - your adrenals must be exhausted by now - after 8 years, and while the vitamin C can help - you should try and get a cortisol prescription, (depending on where you live, we may be able to help, we have docs here who will prescribe cortisol). This should be on your list.

Have they prescribed prednisone over the course of those eight years, and did it help?

The headache is a clue, and I am trying to remember reasons for headache/fatigue from years ago.

First thing is to adopt Linus Pauling's basic therapy (if you haven't already) as published in his book HOW TO LIVE LONGER AND FEEL BETTER. In short the basics are:

6-18 g vitamin C (you have this covered)
400-800 vitamin E
1 or 2 Super-B complex
25000 Vitamin A (could be important for you)
A good multi-vitamin/mineral

I would add at least 10,000 iu of vitamin D(3)
300-600 mg chelated magnesium
Good amounts of Omega/3 oils

And in case you have a problem making your own - 100 to 200 mg of CoQ10.

The above program will cover/correct probably 90% of the issues that may be due to a dietary deficiency.

But the headache issue is a clue..

I'll go back and see what I can dig up on dull persistent headache.

added

As far as the Lypo-C - I would think taking 5 Lypo-C just prior to bed is your best measure at this point (w/47 grams oral C already)

[noxvg01]

Thank you for the reply. I now have tried taking 5 Lypo-C packets in the evening, with the only result being more difficulty falling asleep. I have enough problems with that already. I will stick to the ascorbic acid for now.

My main reason for the first post was to get a good idea of when and how much Lypo-C to add for best effectiveness, as a test in my situation, and now that that has been tried, I am glad that more information was offered. Thank you!!

Vitamins A and E I do not think I have tried, so I have some on the way. All the others that you listed, I have taken, and most of those at the same time and on or above the levels mentioned, to no benefit. None.

On bowel tolerance vitamin C, I have not noticed any improvement. The effects (all occasional) have been either negative: more pain, less clear thinking, jittery feeling, nausea; or neutral, with the tingling.

Joint pain has never been a concern. I do not think I have tried prednisone, though I have tried so many things, it could be that I don't remember. My last test for cortisol came back completely normal. That was about a year ago. My condition has not changed between then and now. Is cortisol primarily for energy? I am most concerned about the brain/cognitive things. (The last, short post took over an hour to write.)

I am also getting a heavy metals hair test done (the one called Hair Elements). Thanks for the tip, VanCanada.

[ofonorow]

If you have trouble sleeping, have you tried melatonin? (It is interesting that when melatonin levels are (should be) high - during sleep, cortisol levels are low. After waking, cortisol shoots up the highest levels, until falling later in the day.)

In a perfect world, cortisol - being a natural hormone - should be available, at least over the counter without prescription.

Unfortunately we do not live in a perfect world, and doctors are brainwashed that "steroids" are dangerous drugs! So it can be very difficult to get a prescription. If you live or can travel to Illinois, I believe I can set you up with doctors who will prescribe hydrocortisone (bioidential form of cortisol) and that may allow you to experience significant relief.

If they could actually measure cortisol correctly, then it would be common practice to prescribe cortisol regularly. It is notoriously hard to measure. But if you are not experiencing any joint pain, then I personally doubt that cortisol is at the root of your issue. (But extra cortisol may still help, because the body can throw off other hormones, including thyroid, when it tries to ensure enough cortisol in the blood stream.)

From my experience the general function of cortisol is to stop inflammation. (When cells aren't getting enough, they cannot stop the inflammation process which goes out of control.)

I will reread you post and any new thoughts, as your case is not typical.

You are getting Vitamin D - you say? (Depending on where you live, that would generally mean 20 minutes of direct sunlight over as much exposed skin as possible between 10 a.m. and 2 p.m. If you live north of Atlanta - the sun won't do it from now until next Spring, and pills are a poor substitute for UV/B light.)

[randian]

For that set of symptoms I would immediately think "hypothyroidism", especially if also accompanied by weight gain and hair loss in the outer 1/3 of the eyebrows. You mention thyroid tests were "normal". What kind of tests were those? Did you take the two (must take both) thyroid antibodies test for Hashimoto's? The TSH test is worthless for diagnosing hypothyroid (it's a measure of pituitary function, not thyroid function), and the blood tests can be misleading because they cannot measure thyroid levels in the cells. You can have in-range Total and Free T3/T4 levels in the blood and still have hypothyroid symptoms because the body's tissues don't have enough T3 (for about a dozen different reasons, none of which are testable, and can only be diagnosed by symptoms).

You will most likely get flack, or an outright refusal to even consider what you're saying, from your doc, so be prepared for that if you choose to push this with them.

[Johnwen]

randian has a good grasp on the thyroid but there is one thing you could try before taking a handful of pills and still feeling like a truck ran over you. It's a cheap trial $2.88 at Wal-mart it's called "Selenium" which is the key product your body uses to convert T4 to T3 so the body can use it. Basicly it's a component of dirt however it's a hazard in high levels and certain diets are very low in it. Generally it's mixed with a component that will cause projectile vomiting at higher levels to prevent overdose. Therefore it may cause some stomach discomfort at lower levels or if your allergic to yeast it may give some problems also. Most people have no problem with it just follow the label directions. Here's a article on it rather then me writting a book about it give it a couple of weeks to see if your getting results.

http://jcem.endojournals.org/content/95/12/5180.long

[noxvg01]

[noxvg01]

I have not had any weight gain or outer eyebrow hair loss. My Anti-TG Ab test was normal (<20), but I did not have the Anti-TPO Ab test done, so that is something to consider. I finished a four- to five-month trial of T3 earlier this year with no benefit. Selenium, I have taken as a part of a multivitamin product before, though the labeling shows only 62.5 mcg, so not as high as mentioned in the article.

I recently learned that there may be a relation between low vitamin D and thyroid disorders. So though I don't know that I have a thyroid problem, as I am hoping to begin taking high levels of vitamin D soon anyway, it will be interesting to see what happens.

[randian]

[VanCanada]

...does anybody know what supplements must be taken, or are best taken, in several doses like C is?

The B vitamins.

(edit: added this later) Andrew Hall Cutler also recommends taking magnesium several times daily, although come to think of it, I don't know why. Perhaps to deal with the laxative effect of taking too much. I can clarify with Cutler if you wish.

The magnesium tip was from his Amalgam Illness book of 1999 which is aimed at those with heavy metal poisoning. I'm not sure if it would be applicable to the population at large. But in any case, his biochemistry knowledge is impeccable.

Good luck.

[noxvg01]

[ofonorow]

I believe that the Vitamin D Council (Dr. Cannel) has been wrong about vitamin A - focusing on gene expression. I agree with the Weston-Price Foundation on this issue. http://www.westonaprice.org/cod-liver-oil/cod-liver-oil-debate

Vitamin A is not a Vitamin D Antagonist.

Contrary to information from the Vitamin D Council, and most recently, from the Life Extension Foundation," Vitamins A and D cooperate with one another. They are not antagonists, but large doses of one may cause harm when not accompanied by the other."

Since vitamin A is required as a signaling partner with vitamin D, vitamin D will increase the turnover of vitamin A. If vitamin A is provided in excess, the results are generally beneficial. Excess vitamin A is stored in the liver. However, when the liver's storage capacity is exceeded, the overload of vitamin A causes the cells to burst, damaging the liver and releasing storage forms of vitamin A into the systemic circulation that do not belong there. By increasing the utilization of vitamin A, vitamin D can help prevent vitamin A toxicity.

If vitamin A is in short supply, on the other hand, the results can be detrimental. By .stealing. all of the vitamin A needed to use for vitamin D specific functions, the body will not have enough vitamin A left to support the many other functions for which it is needed. This may partially explain the toxic effects of excess vitamin D.

The point is that it is probably wise to take vitamins A, D(3) and K together, and you can get vitamins A and D together in Cod Liver Oil.

100,000 iu of retinol is an anti-cancer dose. Pauling recommended 25,000 iu of vitamin A.

As I have repeated several times, there is a difference getting your vitamin D in pills and getting it from skin exposed to sun shine (UV/B light). Pills did not protect me against winter infections, as a UV/B reptile light has. However, this time of year, if you live at a latitude above Atlanta, GA - you cannot get UV/B from sunlight. If you are lucky and live south of Atlanta - you can get vitamin D pretty cheap by taking sun shine over as much exposed skin as possible for 20 to 30 minutes, between the hours of 10:00 am and 2:00 pm daily.