Questions about my plan of attack?

[blade]

so why did my MD cardiologist tell me to get a blood test, he wants to give me statins, and when I rebuffed that idea, I asked him how to naturally lower my cholesterol/risk of heart disease, isnt niacin a good start? he said yeah, but that's about it all
we didnt agree with me about losing weight. 2 yrs ago at 81kg, my blood lipids were great... but he didnt think they'd go back to that level if I just lost weight..
why not? I asked, he didnt explain, rebuffed with, "well, you never know!"

I appreciate your help, my friends Dad(cardiolgist) died from a stroke a few years ago, I have both grandpas in my family dead from heart attacks, my Dad has a-fib, so if taking 7-10 grams of vitamin C can help me not die from CVD, I'd really work at it.
I'm losing weight
taking 14-28grams vit C/day
6+grams lysine
eating in a caloric deficit
taking SuperK complex
taking niacin
taking a few grams of Omega 3s
walking/riding bike
lifting weights

basically the things said in this post

I'm trying to get my weight down to prevent diseases, I think being fat(bodyfat 27%) is going to hurt me, which is why I'm taking AI's to lower estradiol
I know this is a long post, but I'm hoping I'm finally on the right track to my heart and arteries back into shape
THanks!

[blade]

is there proof that Vit C in large doses lowers LpA?
One of my friends wants to see it
thanks

these arent saying LpA, they say LDL
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2682928/

this says no, but aspirin does as does niacin
http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/fw12/lipoprotein.html

[ofonorow]

is there proof that Vit C in large doses lowers LpA?

Here is what we know. Vitamin C seems to reduce Lp(a) about 30% if elevated, like Niacin.

No statin drug lowers Lp(a) and in fact these drugs create a requirement to supplement CoQ10 which is little known by American medical doctors.

Once Pauling focused on Lp(a). after Rath brought the results to him that Lp(a) was in the plaques in post mortem aortas - not ordinary LDL.

NLM CIT. ID: 91031571

TITLE: Lipoprotein(a) in the arterial wall.
AUTHOR: Beisiegel U; Rath M; Reblin T; Wolf K; Niendorf A
ADDRESS:
Medizinische Kernklinik und Poliklinik, Universitatskrankenhaus
Eppendorf, Hamburg, F.R.G.

(This Biesiegel work in Germany is discussed on the one hour video lecture by Linus Pauling on heart disease.) Both Pauling and Rath focused on the idea that the Lp(a) is there because of low vitamin C (and thus low collagen to keep arteries strong.)

In order to prove their new theory, they repeated the Willis experiments on guinea pigs (one of the few species unable to make their own vitamin C and require it in the diet.)

These experiments showed that Lp(a) becomes elevated in guinea pigs deprived of vitamin C, but not in controls.

NLM CIT. ID: 91067711

TITLE: Immunological evidence for the accumulation of lipoprotein(a) in
the atherosclerotic lesion of the hypoascorbemic guinea pig.
AUTHOR: Rath M; Pauling L
ADDRESS:
Linus Pauling Institute of Science and Medicine, Palo Alto, CA
94306-2025.

So if we behave like guinea pigs, we can keep our Lp(a) low by taking sufficient vitamin C.

To my knowledge, these experiments did not show that elevated Lp(a) could be lowered by vitamin C and I don't think they were looking for it.

Our evidence is anecdotal (per the medical professor who lowered his elevated Lp(a) to zero) that the combination of vitamin C, lysine and proline will lower Lp(a) in humans, but this isn't proven. I think johnwen and I reported our last results (less than 3 mg/dl).

[blade]

because of low vitamin C (and thus low collagen to keep arteries strong.)

In order to prove their new theory, they repeated the Willis experiments on guinea pigs (one of the few species unable to make their own vitamin C and require it in the diet.)

These experiments showed that Lp(a) becomes elevated in guinea pigs deprived of vitamin C, but not in controls.[/color][/b]

NLM CIT. ID: 91067711

TITLE: Immunological evidence for the accumulation of lipoprotein(a) in
the atherosclerotic lesion of the hypoascorbemic guinea pig.
AUTHOR: Rath M; Pauling L
ADDRESS:
Linus Pauling Institute of Science and Medicine, Palo Alto, CA
94306-2025.

So if we behave like guinea pigs, we can keep our Lp(a) low by taking sufficient vitamin C.

To my knowledge, these experiments did not show that elevated Lp(a) could be lowered by vitamin C and I don't think they were looking for it.

Our evidence is anecdotal (per the medical professor who lowered his elevated Lp(a) to zero) that the combination of vitamin C, lysine and proline will lower Lp(a) in humans, but this isn't proven. I think johnwen and I reported our last results (less than 3 mg/dl).

that's what is driving me nuts, VIt C was shown not to lower LPA but it did ride those guinea pigs of heart disease?
I thought the same was also shown for apes? That apes were dying in zoos from heart disease and when they were given VC in foods, the CAD stopped
http://www.naturalcurezone.com/guinea-p ... nd-humans/

is that accurate?

so although LpA is correlated with CAD, taking Vit C lowers chance of CAD?
Did pauling ever measure Vit C in people after they died from CAD?
If LpA goes up with low Vit C, then it makes sense high vit C would lower it

[ofonorow]

You are making progress in understanding

It was actually G. Willis (Canada) in the 1950s who measured vitamin C in tissues after all kinds of death. The tissues of those chronically ill before death had zero ascorbate. The tissues of those who suddenly died, e.g. car accident, had much more normal levels of ascorbate (vitamin C)

We have copies of these studies as PDF file. Let me know if you want the link.

Willis did the studies with guinea pigs that proved that a single factor - vitamin C - when low causes and when added back reverses heart disease, again in the 1950s. Lp(a) was unknown at that time.

I hope you are correct about the apes in captivity. There was a rash of deaths in zoos, and we wrote an article and tried to contact various zoos with Pauling's results and even offered them Cardio-C, etc.

Finally, you don't want to lower Lp(a) per se, you want to build the strength of the artery, so that Lp(a) isn't required as a surrogate for low vitamin C.

[blade]

Finally, you don't want to lower Lp(a) per se, you want to build the strength of the artery, so that Lp(a) isn't required as a surrogate for low vitamin C.

I have been telling my folks that Vit C is needed as a cofactor in lots of rxns in the body.
it is used to repair/make new collagen
collage is what makes up arteries/veins. so you need vit C to repair/make arteries/veins.

the RDA of 10mg is just not enough, so take 100+ based on your weight determined by dose(MG)/Bodyweight(KG)
so 7K mg vit C or so
7000mg/95kg=73
so figure it out for your weight. but get near/above 100

so doing this, taking lots of VC will help
1 make arteries strong
2 take off plaques(molecule by molecule) or is that only done by adding proline/lysine vit K?

at any rate
my number is 127 or more
I take vit K
I take lysine and its in my food(2+ grams)
and I'm lifting weights/losing fat/doing moderate cardio(walking), lowering estradiol(AI) eating a plant based diet
and will do this until march 21, about 64 days
cause that's when I see my parents again

I think the best way to see if Im making progress is to test my LPa, which I will do, when I stop losing weight(about 12% bodyfat)

I have a question:
I am putting my dad on TRT, to reduce his high estradiol and increase his testosterone
he is very concerned because doctors warn him that TRT will cause heart attacks.
he has low total cholesterol, and I'm geting him to take 3+ grams of vit C a day. his number is 34, I should be closer to 100,.. so I need to get him to take more vit C...
I dont know why MDs tell him TRT will cause his heart to explode.. I know to watch his estradiol and hemoctir, etc
any thoughts about vit C and TRT?
thanks

[ofonorow]

See johnwen's post http://vitamincfoundation.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=11538&p=38232#p38232 in response to your dad's numbers.

[blade]

Dec 2014, I had a stress test done. passed and was told by my cardiologist, no signs of atherosclerosis.
Or was it arteriosclerosis?
Does Pauling therapy help arteriosclerosis?(hardening of arteries?)

I asked him if I had high cholestrol,which I knew I did since I was oveweight, what would he think of statins? he asked, no, no, niacin and vitamin C.
Niacin will help., vitamin C is hogwash

I asked about welchol the RX that binds to bile salts, thus forcing your body to use cholestrol to make more bile salts.

He said if I wanted that, I'd need a blood test
I don't need a blood test, I know I have high cholesterol.
Well, you might not,.
why wouldnt I? I was fatter 4 years ago and I had high cholesterol, why wouldnt that change now>
I know when I lean out again, like i was 2 yrs ago, it'll be low again,.

I don't remember giving them blood, but it seems I must have? I got a test results back today, my total cholesterol is 272
It might have been taken post exercise and it was not fasting, so I'm not sure how much use it is?
I'm steadily losing fat,and taking 100+mg/kg vitamin C/day
I'm eating a plant heavy diet with eggwhites for protein.
Using pills to be sure to get enough magnesium, beta-sisterol,B-12, and using AI therapy to lower elevated estradiol.
I eat a bunch of spinach,kale, garlic cloves, fruit, mixed veggies and at least 1lb of broccoili a day and walk at least 5 miles, while lifting weights 2-3x a week
I think Im doing all I can to avoid CAD

[blade]

I wonder about my iodine level
I eat no meat to speak of, I do eat lots of fruit/veggies..I'm starting to add shrimp to my diet as well as make myself consume more cranberries, but If I wanted a pill to help my iodine reservoir, what would people here recommend?
thanks

[blade]

Do they? Do people these days know how important it is, say for their child, to SUPPLEMENT vitamin C, or are they brainwashed to think they get enough in food?

Pauling agrees that a mere 10 mg can prevent frank scurvy.

The argument is how much past the miniscule vitamin dosages is required. The argument spans orders of magnitude!
With authority of the RDA (lets say) 100 mg, our recommendation of 3000 mg, and Pauling's recommendation of 6000 to 18000 mg.[/color]

I was talking today to someone about Pauling therapy and they insisted they got enough Vit C from their diet.
I asked them to simply run the numbers and see just how many grams of vitamin C they are getting

Recent Changes by the FDA arent useful, at all from what I can see, in nutritional labeling, changing 1 20oz bottle 2 servings instead of 3, which still requires someone to do math to figure out how many calories they are consuming in one 20oz bottle.
nutrition label vitamin C optional, I don't know if that's new though

My friend figured how she was only getting less than 2 grams.... in her diet

she asked me a question I didnt know the answer to
"if vitamin C is in the body for such a short time, how does it do so much work in the arteries to reduce plaque?

[tjohnson_nb]

The level of Vit C in the BLOOD is highly regulated however there is a vast amount IN THE CELLS which can be depleted (and renewed) over time. It is only after the cells become severely low that one gets scurvy. So the idea is to supplement to just under bowel tolerance the rest of your life. This is my story

[blade]

The level of Vit C in the BLOOD is highly regulated however there is a vast amount IN THE CELLS which can be depleted (and renewed) over time. It is only after the cells become severely low that one gets scurvy. So the idea is to supplement to just under bowel tolerance the rest of your life. This is my story

right
but taking VC, VK, and proline/lysine, how do those substances work on an existing plaque in the arteries to heal the artery, ie get rid of the plaque and re-expose the endothelium which makes the Nitric oxide, which helps regulate blood pressure/cause erections.

[ofonorow]

You mentioned you didn't want to read books, so my only suggestion is to begin with the one-hour lecture by Linus Pauling on his unified theory of heart disease - there is no short answer your questions.

But here is an attempt at a short answer.

Heart disease is really scurvy - a low grade vitamin C deficiency that weakens arteries.

Lp(a) has become a surrogate for low vitamin C and works to put "plaster casts" on weak arteries (we call these atherosclerotic plaques).

Taking vitamin C "fixes" the arteries, and lysine (and proline) interfere with Lp(a)'s ability to make plaster casts. Pauling even felt these "Lp(a) binding inhibitors" can reverse existing plaques.

It does seem miraculous that lysine and proline are the building blocks of collagen, and that vitamin C is required for the body to make collagen.

[blade]

You mentioned you didn't want to read books, so my only suggestion is to begin with the one-hour lecture by Linus Pauling on his unified theory of heart disease - there is no short answer your questions.

But here is an attempt at a short answer.

Heart disease is really scurvy - a low grade vitamin C deficiency that weakens arteries.

Lp(a) has become a surrogate for low vitamin C and works to put "plaster casts" on weak arteries (we call these atherosclerotic plaques).

Taking vitamin C "fixes" the arteries, and lysine (and proline) interfere with Lp(a)'s ability to make plaster casts. Pauling even felt these "Lp(a) binding inhibitors" can reverse existing plaques.

It does seem miraculous that lysine and proline are the building blocks of collagen, and that vitamin C is required for the body to make collagen.

LOL
I like books, my issue is the time it takes to get books when I want info NOW!
yeah, I read fine since my eye surgery last year.. I got your book, eh?

-the stuff from Chapt 7 of owens book(PMWL)

I understand VC is used when available otherwise LpA is used
which makes sense why animals don't get heart disease, since they never need lpA, they always have VC.

I thought my question was simple, maybe I just wrote it poorly.
Plaque is made of cholesterol, fatty substances, cellular waste products, calcium and fibrin.
How does lysine/proline/VC make it go away?
I thought I read on here something like, "molecule by molecule."
I'm just glad Pauling figured out how to get rid of these plaques in our arteries and restores the endothelium so it can produce nitric oxide, right?

[ofonorow]

Good question. One of the three main Pauling/Rath patents is for dipping organs during a transplant into an Lp(a) binding inhibitor solution (vitamin C and lysine) and the plaques in the arteries "melt".

Use of ascorbate and tranexamic acid solution for organ and blood vessel treatment prior to transplantation
http://patft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PTXT&s1=5230996.PN.&OS=PN/5230996&RS=PN/5230996

A method and pharmaceutical agent are provided for the prevention and treatment of cardiovascular disease, particularly cardiovascular disease in the context of diabetic angiopathy, by-pass surgery, organ transplantation, and hemodialysis, by administering ascorbate and substances that inhibit the binding of lipoprotein (a) to blood vessel walls. The use of ascorbate and lipoprotein (a) binding inhibitors such as tranexamic acid in a temporary storage solution for blood vessels and organs prior to transplantation is also demonstrated.

Tranexamic acid is a lysine analog. Presumably the same thing happens taking these extremely safe substances into our blood stream.

Note, in our experience this works quickly for most heart patients at any stage of disease (as the first were end-stage and had no other options.)
However, if there is a calcium build-up, while the arteries may open, vitamin K is required to move (eliminate) the calcium.